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Politics and hate

Holy shit I'm glad I have DelayOfGame around. All the other community sites I see (especially the largest ones on the web) seems to be choc full of outright hate, mostly drawing from political ignorance and an inability to have a civil conversation about it. I definitely disagree with a lot of you about a lot of things but nobody here is outright hateful about stuff, unless we're all clearly joking around. Its amazing to me how hateful the internet seems.

You know when I was a kid and the internet was just starting to come to pepople's homes, the promise was that it would be this great place where everybody could communicate and share information freely. Where anybody could set up a website, and you could access anything that anybody put up on theirs. It was about taking down walls, removing barriers, and letting us share information and communicate with everyone freely. That was really it. That idea was glorious and exciting. We were thrilled at the idea of being able to go 'online' and find new interesting people to talk to or have the wealth of human knowledge at our fingertips. it was also a great way to see what people were creating or learn things. (yeah, even slowly downloaded VGA 'candid nature photography' and games. ;)

Now I see the internet and while there are people still doing some exciting things and there are cool things being created and shared, its amazing what a large percentage of it has become about putting up barriers, and spreading hatred. I've heard talk that the internet has become an engine for radicalization. That what we've built now lends itself to people taking extreme positions and arguing them (anybody not agreeing is someone to attack). Otherwise moderate people are pushed to extremes and you can't be a moderate. I wasn't sure what I thought of that theory but It seems to hold water in many places I see lately.

Obviously a lot of hatred has always existed but its amazing to me now how people feel license to vocalize it. Before it was (relatively) unspoken. The shit I see people say, if you talked like that in public when I was a kid, you would learn quickly not to do it a second time. Now its just par for the course. People getting death threats are told to just suck it up and that its normal. what?! I don't get it man.

I dunno, maybe I'm just too old for this shit. I don't have the energy for all that anger and hate anymore. Is there more hate now or is there less but more vocal hate? I'm not sure. I do know that even if its less but more vocal hate, that vocalizing will lead to more hate down the road. Even if its just a loud minority, they'll make hate seem normal and people will get worse. Thats why we started frowning upon shit like hate speech and open hate in the first place.

Anyhow. end rant. I'm just glad DelayOfGame is relatively normal and even when theres hate tossed around I know we're all more or less normal.

Juxtapose

Comments

  • I've gotta crash for the night, but I've got some things I want to add to, and affirm, from the above @Rajio . In brief, I agree with you and the "decline" and "degeneration" of the internet, but I also find people as a whole are a lot angrier these days.

    Tomorrow, time permitting, I'll get into my thoughts and post them.

  • RajioRajio Centurion

    Its interesting how common it is for people to deny that facts exist now. Like when I was a younger, people did that too ... until confronted with a source indicating the fact existed, and they'd shut up. now people deny the moon landing FFS. we have more access to more information than ever and people don't even believe in science. Seems so backwards.

  • On lunch now, so my overall thoughts is that not just online, but overall, people are angrier and more easily pissed off in general.

    I was actually talking with a coworker about this last week, and I suspect part of it is due to the economic crash of '08 which we still haven't recovered from coupled with our consumerist lifestyle. People seem to be working more and harder to live the life they want to (which causes stress and short tempers) or more commonly, they're wracking up significant debt to live a life they can not afford (which causes even more stress).

    The other part I see is with technological advancements and social media and how our society is so instant gratification now. No one likes having their bubble burst when they're on their phone looking at whatever; if you bump into a random in transit by accident lost in their phone they're a good chance they'll get angry at you. Social media also skews everyone's lives, since they only post the good stuff and everyone gets envious of everyone. I noticed a few years ago here at work that people's vacations started becoming more extravagant, and I know it started with Facebook as people were trying to one-up one another.

    That's all society in general, but looking specifically at the net, in addition to the above, you also have the youth factor weighing in heavily. Kids who are no longer moderated or disciplined can rant off on anything that they want, in any way they want, because there are no real repercussions. Not just online, but in real life as well kids today get away with everything. Proper discipline is a thing of the past, and it goes hand in hand with our decadent, consumerist society.

    So if someone sends me a death threat, they can get away with it because there are no consequences; and that's absolutely insane and completely wrong.

    So I'm also glad that we have DelayofGame, because I know I can come here and chat with people, many of whom I know in person, and not be "put on blast" when we disagree. I can speak my mind freely and properly here.

    As you all know I go to the StarCraft II and Steam Mortal Kombat X boards, and those places are awful; train wrecks of youth that I can't look away from because it makes me sad and very worried for our future at the same time. Not just because of how they talk about games and developers, but because of all the reasons @Rajio listed above, and what that implies for the greater picture as a whole.

    When chatting with those kinds of people I do stick with facts since facts are, well truth and still, as you mention @Rajio people will ignore them or try and discredit them and call you ignorant (and much worse). For sticking to facts.

    In terms of the internet, hate, bigotry, etc., I don't see any of that changing at all unless actual repercussions are brought in to place.

    People get very up-in-arms when the government or whatever starts talking about monitoring internet use, but sometimes I wonder if we're getting to the point where that really might be necessary.

  • SintacsSintacs Centurion

    I like calling angry internet people "rage babies" because really, that's what they are. You see it all over the place, no matter what the subject, people always find something to fight over and discriminate one group. Honestly I find it entertaining sometimes, it's like watching animals at the zoo. Now with that said, I don't enjoy the way everything is headed, it's actually a lot harder to find chill people to be friends with online anymore, even in places that should be chill communities, people almost always find something to start fighting about. Gaming communities are especially bad for fighting over nothing, be it console wars, or saying people who like X game are stupid, or people who don't like X game are stupid, or people just generally being super toxic in online games (seems to be spreading to all games more than ever, I blame esports, everybody thinks they're gonna be the next super popular pro and it's just everybody else holding them back).

    That's where I feel a lot of the hate comes from I think (as @Juxtapose was saying), people trying to raise themselves above others, even if that means tearing them down and being a complete shit. Online nothing you do really follows you, if they had to live their lives with their online behaviors following them, I feel things would be fairly different. Maybe not for the better, maybe not worse, who knows, having that sort of thing follow you could start to make everybody be a dick in the real world because they're already flagged as one, though it could also make people be more cautious because they care what others think of them.

    I've also noticed a lot of the "equality" types (at least the radicals of those groups, which are generally the most vocal, and get the most attention) have done nothing for their equality causes, if anything, they're damaging their chances at equality and making the difference gap even wider than it was before. And it's both sides in that, both the "equality" folks and the "anti-equality" folks, I'm only using "equality" here because there's so many different yet similar groups around now that I couldn't care less about that it would take up too much of my time mentioning them all. I feel like a lot of the younger folks now are more easily influenced too which kind of feeds back into all the hate, they see it all, they feel it's acceptable, they pick a side and join in.

    It is great that we have this site, but I feel part of what makes us a great community is the fact that we've mostly all known each other, or at least seen each other around for a long time now, so we tend to have respect for one another, and have generally weeded out the dicks in the past.

    Overall though, people in general seem to be more ignorant than ever, another big cause of the hate as well. Everybody has their own facts and reasons to hate others, while others go out of their way to disprove those facts then return the hate. That shits gotta be stressful, I'd rather focus my efforts on shit I like (and avoid social media when possible) and enjoy life, rather than focus on negative shit all the time.

    Juxtapose
  • RajioRajio Centurion

    Yeah seriously, all that effort put in to hate and drama, who the fuck has time for it? I'm too lazy to be bothered being that angry about nonsense.

    Lactos
  • I have to agree with Raj, the internet has become about putting up barriers. I quit a forum yesterday that I had been a part of for 14 years. This was basically my home forum but had started out as an Ultima Online forum ( ya that game still exists). It had basically evolved into a big family where people posted all sorts of things.

    I posted a meme hoping to start a discussion about the hypocrisy of the current burkini issue. Three of us had a discussion that was civil enough when a fourth joined in... the topic was heading down hill when I broke off the conversation and basically thanked everyone for participating and suggesting we just leave it there....before insults and death threats start flying around.

    No problem so far....I felt the discussion was a success until an admin deleted it for no reason other than his political views disagreed with the majority of those posted. No explanations, no comment...just deleted it. I know why he did it because I have know him casually for 20 years and we have had plenty of discussions over the years.

    At that point I said good-bye to everyone and logged out and deleted the account....we dont need more barriers... we need less. As long as people are relatively polite and respectful ( and preferably passionate) about their views and others there we need a free and open internet.

    Bomb and guns and bullets arent going to stop hate and ignorance and terrorism. The only thing that will is acceptance and understanding and discussion.

    ( oh and I disagree with most of what Jas wrote because....oh well he is Jas and I miss our debates from the old Xbox forum)

    B)

    Juxtapose
  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    There is nothing wrong with questioning things like the moon landing, but when you get hit with facts then admit you were wrong. That's is one major problem with people is that they will never admit to being wrong no matter what the facts are.

    Look at these people who claim the earth is flat.
    Its rare to talk to someone online who would dare admit they were wrong.

    There are so many different issues that its impossible to solve them all. I think the internet is an awesome tool. No need for shelves worth of encyclopedias that you need to search through for hours and hours, you just type in key words and get tons of relevant information.

    You can share your picture and videos with friends and relatives far away instead of having to send pictures through the mail.

    though then there are people who use it to commit crimes that are hard to track.
    There are people who recruit others to their hateful causes, plan attacks , spread hate messages and so on.

    Another issue is that people aren't happy with their lives because its not as good as other people's . They cant be happy knowing someone else has a cooler car, a hotter girlfriend, a bigger house, more expensive clothes and so on. People blame others for all their problems and cant admit that its their own choices that has them in the spot they are in. So they don't change to improve their situation, they stay in their current state because they want someone else to get them out of it.

    Other people mentioned it already but a big problem is everyone wants to be better than the other person. They want to screw others over, hurt, steal, cheat, insult and gossip about other people.

    I don't know if it happens more than ever but we notice it more because any dumbass can make a youtube video or forum account and go off with their opinions.

    Juxtapose
  • Wait, there are people still steadfastly insisting the earth is flat?

  • Law212Law212 Centurion
    Yes it's getting a lot of followers
  • Law212Law212 Centurion
    It's mostly religious people
  • Huh. I haven't seen that one, but then again, I don't go all over the net anymore because of all the hate and BS that goes on.

  • @Law212 said:
    the earth is flat.

    That's bullshit. I have it on good authority that it's banana shaped.

    Juxtapose
  • the flat earth society is just bad shit crazy... the moon stuff I can understand some people questioning it if you look at all the evidence.
    Now I do believe American's walked on the moon... but I have never heard a good explanation for....

    1) why the terrain looks identical ( ie same rocks and outcrops) in all pictures yet they claim the 6 landing sights to be 100's of miles apart.
    2) Space is an absolute vacuum and that flag just does not behave how it should.
    3) Our cell phones have more processing power the all the nasa computers did combine back then yet.... When asked in year 2000 about putting a man back on the moon Nasa said it would take at least 20 years ( fuck they did it in 9 years the first time with 1960's tech)
    Oh and when asked again a few years ago...they still say 20 years
    4) there is just too much bullshit and secrecy about shit there is no reason to be secret about 50 years later

    There are some great documentaries out there about this subject... I laugh at most things when I watch them but there is enough to make you say...WTF

  • Did you watch the videos about calling the sandy hook shootings a hoax as well as the pulse nightclub shooting and Boston Marathon bombing?
  • no I havent..... but years ago I watched some of the Jesse Ventura videos until they got too far out there

  • ya I watched a few and noticed he had on some woman who would say the same lines the exact same way in every video she was in.....

  • I Love how Trump stated yesterday how without a doubt Mexico will be paying for an 18 foot prison wall to divide their two countries.

    President of Mexico was asked same question 15 mins after meeting with Trump. He says America is welcome to build whatever they want on their property but Mexico won't pay for it.

    The really scary part is I know a bunch of southern America's that think Trump can do everything he promises...

  • RajioRajio Centurion

    I'm not sure how much any of them realize how much that will cost too. I mean not just to build, but all the other associated costs with it. If its anything like the berlin wall, you need caltrops, a ditch/moat, two raised walls, a no-man's land between them, towers, barracks spaced out every few towers, bases spaced out every few barracks (to resupply and provide infrastructure support), and so on. and you have to pay for that on an ongoing basis with all the maitenence etc. These days you'd also need to augment with electronic surveillance too. Its not like you can just stack some precast concrete forms in a strip along the border. Its a pretty big undertaking that has big costs to maintain year over year. With the size of that border it would be quite insane, though it would guarantee some miltitary industrial complex enough that they could reel in their forein military presence without sacrificing that economic incentive I suppose. Might be better for them to spend more on that shit at home than abroad anyhow?

  • well if they dont know the cost they should they have the fence-line/wall around Gitmo which is what 25 miles long... and that is surround by the worlds largest active mine field designed to stop a US invasion of Cuba.

    Mexico/America border is around 2000 miles... so around 80 times the cost.

    The mexican fence is only 670 miles long and it cost around 2.4 billion to put up. They could pull the 2 rifle company's out of Cuba and use them to man the fence.

    People are staggeringly naive about these cost and the long-term costs of maintaining it.

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