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The age of reason

RajioRajio Centurion
This discussion was created from comments split from: Random Beef! *Insert Rant Here*.
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  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    I'm really disappointed in people. Lately I've been going on youtube and playing random videos for background noise wile doing other things like gaming and homework.

    So occasionally videos about demons and ghosts would play. So sometimes id watch them as some are entertaining, but then you go in to the comments and that's where the sadness starts. You have all kinds of people talking about how terrified they are because those were real and they know someone who had a ghost bother them, or they once had a childrens toy start up for no reason .....

    Its all BS. the videos are fake (obviously) and the stories are creations of minds of people who want to believe in something amazing so much that they make up stories and then convince themselves those stories are real.

    They also watch those videos and ignore the fishing wire pulling a door closed , or the bad CG effects used.

    There was on person who commented saying that her moms dog, way back in the day in her small mountain village in the middle of nowhere started barking at a demon chased it , killed it and brought it back.

    THis kind of stuff is really sad. And there are tons of people who go on with their own made up stories and who believe the videos are real.. It shows there is a lot of mental illness out there.

    And they wont listen to reason.

    Other videos that popped up but I didn't find entertaining, I just found stupid were the mandella effect videos.

    people believe that things are changing because of overlapping timelines.

    so some examples in these videos are:

    The movie line in Forrest gump" Momma always said life was like a box of chocolates.."
    people insist that is used to be. "Life is like a box of chocholates.."

    The star wars example:
    People claim that when Darth cut off llukes hand, this was darth vader's line before the timeline change. "Luke, I am your father"
    when in fact it was always "no, I am your father"

    There are tons of other examples. like a guy who claims Cap'n crunch used to be Captain Crunch.

    or that froot loops used to be Fruit loops.

    all this evidence , to lots of people is the mandella effect/crossing over timelines.

    People actually think that facts are changing based on a different timeline where thigns are slightly different than they are in our timeline.....

    You try to explain that people misquote movies all the time and think things are a certain way but aren't, they just ignore you and feel that the most obvious explanation is multiverse......

    Its really crazy that so many people buy into stupid nonsense. THough to me its not surprising considering the amount of religious people on earth.

    I'm not here to bash religion, but digging deeper, the people who believe in the BS demon and ghost videos.....religious.

    The people who believe in flat earth.... religious

    the people who think timelines are overlapping.... religious. One guy evne said in his video its satan trying to make changes to laws and to distance man even further from god.......

    IS all this just a small amount of people who are ill and have no other outlet than youtube? or are there more people like this and the internet just exposes more of them?

    Rajio
  • Dont mix up religion and faith,... I dont think you are but I just want to be sure. Religion is pretty damn messed up. Faith is pure and untainted.

    For me, I know beyond a doubt there is a God. That is faith, religion is when man takes that faith and corrupts it and perverts it.

    So for me, there is a God.
    Therefore Satan must also exist.
    If you believe in Angels,
    Then you cant discount Demons.

    Does that mean I believe the all the videos?? I have never watched them so I cant judge them, but I doubt them on principle. But if you have studied prophecy and end times you know one thing...Dont under-estimate Satan.

    Juxtapose
  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    @Rajio said:
    Facts are dead

    Right. It seems that way.

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    @EchoGolfSierra said:
    Dont mix up religion and faith,... I dont think you are but I just want to be sure. Religion is pretty damn messed up. Faith is pure and untainted.

    For me, I know beyond a doubt there is a God. That is faith, religion is when man takes that faith and corrupts it and perverts it.

    So for me, there is a God.
    Therefore Satan must also exist.
    If you believe in Angels,
    Then you cant discount Demons.

    Does that mean I believe the all the videos?? I have never watched them so I cant judge them, but I doubt them on principle. But if you have studied prophecy and end times you know one thing...Dont under-estimate Satan.

    I'm sorry but faith is naïve. You're choosing to believe something based on no evidence to back it up. So really, you're only believing because you want to. (not attacking you, speaking generally)

    Though if you mean that there is something that created us... then thats more of a possibility because there is evidence to suggest that. Though something that created us, would have to be another being (not god the ghost and heaven and all that mumbo jumbo)

    But then you can go on for ages asking, then who created them? and who created whoever created those guys and so on and so on.

    Evidence points so far, to there have been a big bang in the vast emptiness of infinite space which somehow hurled all kinds of matter through space which became planets, stars, and other things, and on those planets (or at least one) some mixture was right to create all kinds of living things.

    Anyway, I didn't want this to go towards religion, though I think I did that anyway.
    I don't go out of my way to insult religious people, but I don't go out of my way to not offend religion either. I wont pretend to respect religion.

    Anyway, I'm more concerned about people believing any new online fad like the flat earth crap has been going on for a while now. the earth is flat and is covered in a dome......

    demons and ghosts.......

    the mandela effect where people think because they remember things differently that its not their bad memory its two different timelines crossing over.

    The recent mandela effect video I saw had some guy talk about chik fillet.... He insists that it used to be spelled Chick and now the timeline has overlapped and it is now spelled Chik......

    here was my response to that.

    "The reason people think there would be a "CK" in chik is because when you looks at things like that do you sit and study the logo and signage? no you take a glancing look . youre not thinking of analyzing it. So you looks at the sign and your mind adds in the "K" because you are used to "chick" as opposed to "chik" This happens with lots of things , like people thinking the cereal would be "fruit Loops" its because we don't analyze things like that in the moment.

    I'm sure lots of you have seen those facebook posts where you read a paragraph and the words are missing letters or some words are omitted completely , but as you read your brain inserts the missing letters or words and you don't realize it.

    I encourage people to start thinking rationally instead of buying into ludicrous ideas that get passed around the internet"

    So if you don't know. Its called the Mandela effect because some people claim that they remember Nelson Mandela dying in the 80s and some remember him dying in 2013.....

  • RajioRajio Centurion

    You can't really exist in society without some degree of faith. It may not be exactly what you're talking about but even in a reason based society you have to operate on faith sometimes. You have to have faith that I won't stab you for example, or that facts that your peers provide are indeed factual (you cant test every theory and fact yourself). science itself requires some degree of faith (in the peer review process) for example.

    More to your point though, beyond people beleiving demonstarably false shit, is what seems like people actively searching out that sort of contradictory shit to beleive in and promote. i just woke up so i can't quite articulate it well - its like they want to be edgy and show that they think critically so instead of actually thinking critically, they simply take a stance contrary to the commonly held beleif, casting all those who hold it as 'sheeple' and feeling smart because they dont take the facts presented to them for granted ... when reality they're really just being dumbfucks who are holding society back at large. see moon landing deniers, for example. also people who deny global climate change, or any other reason based fact upon which actual experts agree.

    that, plus people prefer operating on emotion over facts to the point where they will even say facts don't matter and are 'elitist' or 'biased'. they don't want to be factually correct. they want their emotions validated. its the dumbest shit. look at the US election and all that talk about their economy, free trade, and immigration. actual experts on those subjects have told them that free trade is good for their economy, and the world's economy. immigration is good for them (especially for their economy), and is lower now than it used to be anyhow. their economy is better than it used to be too. but all the talk in the election is around how bad these things are for them. Ask them specifically what is making them bad, and they tell either about how they feel, or es ally disprovable information.

    EchoGolfSierra
  • RajioRajio Centurion
    This discussion was created from comments split from: Random Beef! *Insert Rant Here*.
  • This guy from some Toronto creation organization came and talked at my church a couple of weeks back. Dude was straight crazy. He pretty much said "be closed minded. That is what a Christian SHOULD be. Don't even entertain the thought that somebody else's ideas might be right and yours wrong". At this point I was half facepalming and half trying to hide my laughter from the rest of my dad's congregation.

    He later went on to "disprove" the big bang three ways. One point he made was how the Grand Canyon can't be as old as scientists say it is because "he and a group of Christian scientists went rafting there and, believe him, it sure didn't look that old". That's it. That was his "evidence". People were eating that garbage up.

    I didn't read the rest of the posts other than Laws first one but I just felt like this kind of belongs here.
  • Raj dont get me started on the Moon landing shit....Yes of course man walked on the Moon. But equally valid is the idea that NASA doctored photographs of the various landing sites etc. Any reasonable person that looks at all the evidence and does some research would come to that conclusion.

    Why would NASA do it? Because there was huge sums of tax dollars that were being actively recruited if tax payers were interested and supported the program. Ok makes sense...

    The legacy of doctored photographs is that a large group of people that assume because the photographs are hinky that the entire moon launch/landing is hinky.

    Global climate change is another perfect example. There is real factual data that is currently available that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that man made climate change exists and is a problem.

    But 25 years ago when all this started there wasnt reasonable scientific data, there was reasonable scientific conjecture. And there was big companies spending lots of money distorting facts to generate huge profits.

    You also had one of the most powerful lobby groups in the history of lobby groups spending billion to fight even the idea of climate change. So I dont think it is a huge surprise that it has taken many intelligent people to this day and time to accept the facts about climate change.

    Now Law

    You are failing to comprehend the significance difference between faith and religion.

    Belief in a higher power is faith. Following the teachings of a man is religion.
    I have faith in a higher power and I name that higher power God, but dont confuse that with the BS taught by most formal religions that are really no more than cults. By I will leave that subject there so as to not offend some participants that might have been raised to participate in one of these cults.

    Good discussion guys...got to run but I will look back into it after physio

  • RajioRajio Centurion

    I have faith that there is a power in the universe beyond man. the drake equation exists.

  • @Rajio said:
    I have faith that there is a power in the universe beyond man. the drake equation exists.

    Aliens!!

  • @Rajio said:
    I have faith that there is a power in the universe beyond man. the drake equation exists.

    ya did that ever come up with an actual number??? ohhhh ya it did, wasnt it 42?

  • @Rajio said:
    I have faith that there is a power in the universe beyond man. the drake equation exists.

  • DoosDoos Centurion
    edited November 2016

    So, I looked into the trending videos and saw the Wonder Woman trailer was one of 'em. It has 7.4 million views. That's nearly 1/4th of Canada's population.

    It has 21600 comments. That is 0.3% of the people who've viewed the trailer have made a comment. Of those comments, 10% are probably fucking stupid as fuck. Maybe 50%, I don't know.. I don't read YouTube comments.

    Anyway, the other 99.7% of the people who watched that trailer are probably normal people who don't give a fuck about commenting on things because they're not fucking dumb shits.

    Dumb people shout the loudest. Pretty much always.

  • RajioRajio Centurion

    You've got to be a dumb fuck to even LOOK at youtube comments, nevermind to leave one. :wink:

  • @TimothyWedel said:
    He later went on to "disprove" the big bang three ways.

    This is actually something I hate. It seems there's only two camps, you believe God made everything, or you believe in the big bang. The big bang is only a theory, and I haven't really heard of any solid proof, but the reason I think it's popular is because people want to know things had a beginning, that there was a start. I'm perfectly fine with accepting that shits been around a long ass time, maybe there was no beginning, maybe its been here for an infinite amount of time, and will continue on. Sure, things will change and minor things will come and go, but everything on the whole will continue. I just really don't like to assume EVERYTHING was crated in the big bang. Maybe there was a bang, but I'd wager is was tiny in the grand scale of everything, and it could have created out galaxy as we know it, but I have my doubts about it reacting all of them. To me, the big bang is just something folks who don't want to say God made everything cling to, but I don't accept either one of them.

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    well the reason the big bang is the popular theory is because everything in space is moving away from a central point. so at some point in time those things moving away all started in the same place.

  • Everything that's known to us at least. I'm a believer in things out there being infinite. We may see things moving, but there could very well be things far out of our perceptive range that are perfectly stationary. I'm always kinda bummed out that I exist now and not a few thousand years in the future, I'd love to see more of what's out there, and even see us with advanced space travel capabilities, with maybe some colonies setup throughout our solar system, but I'll never see that outside of science fiction movies and stuff :(

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    There could be..... but everything we can see is constantly moving ... that's why the big bang theory, because something happened to expel everything away from e ach other.

  • @Rajio said:
    You've got to be a dumb fuck to even LOOK at youtube comments, nevermind to leave one. :wink:

    wait a minute...I leave Youtube comments...lol

  • @Law212 said:
    There could be..... but everything we can see is constantly moving ... that's why the big bang theory, because something happened to expel everything away from each other.

    gee that perfectly lines up with the god creation story. I am not a hardcore bible thumper, but I have studied comparative religion and the bible. It is universally accepted that Moses authored the creation story found in the present day bible. The scriptures that he based that book on talk about a cosmic event created by God that started it all. How is that any different than what you claim science proclaims? And it should be noted they came up with this a few thousand years before science did.....

    Personally I agree with Sintacs I dont think it is an either or.....I am in the both camp.

    We have all looked at the beauty of a sunrise or sunset but then when you realize that the only eyes on the planet that can appreciate it are human eyes... ( bird and animal kingdom doesnt see colour the way we can) I dont believe that was a coincidence.

    I dont think the bible is necessarily the answer....and religion definitely isnt, but I dont believe all this was a coincidence created by 2 atoms colliding.

    Sorry I cant make that leap of faith. But if you want to....I will fight to the death to support your right to :)

  • RajioRajio Centurion

    @EchoGolfSierra said:
    wait a minute...I leave Youtube comments...lol

    dear lord. its you. you're the one!

    EchoGolfSierra
  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    One thing religion does is change their interpretation of things. sometimes they do it to be more relevant to modern times, sometimes they change to go along with what science has proven.

    The bible is just stories by man. Nothing involving god. And after all these years and the many different

    And just because you don't think all that was a coincidence, doesn't mean it isn't. We don't know. It could be.

    I don't really put any thought to the story of moses who talked to a butrning bush and parted a sea. His explanation of a cosmic event was transalated by people years and years later , but in general religion is against the big bang.

    the big bang is based on all matter in the universe rushing away from one single point. We don't know what caused it but I'm not going to assume that some man made story that god sharted the universe into an explosive existence.

    Like, there are so many possibilities. I think science will answer them and moses and his walking around the desert wont.

    How is there an infinite void of nothing? how did something inside nothing explode causing all kinds of something? What created the void of nothing? is it inside something? Lots of questions that we wont know in our lifetime. SO instead of living my life worrying about it. I just enjoy it. I wont live in fear of a higher power or live thinking I have to please to ghost.

    I also know better than to think if I'm home alone and its dark that there might be ghosts around.

    People might argue that something has to come from something. that everything is created, but there has to be a starting point for everything . Things cant have existed for ever. Maybe everything did start with the big bang. No creator, no god, no aliens, just the big bang . maybe anti matter crushed in on itself to the point of the explosion which created matter of all kinds and sent it scattering all over the void of space.

  • But your science says that is impossible Law. The Laws of science state Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed... so those initial 2 atoms have always been here according to science...just waiting to bump into each other in this huge vast nothingness.
    Also according to the laws of science those two atoms had to contain enough energy to create the 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 stars that presently inhabit the universe. (approximation according to the best science of today)

    You speak of religion as the one that keeps changing to support the facts. Yet that is what science has done for over 2 millennia. Science insisted the earth was flat...not religion, science insisted the sun orbited the earth, hell science insisted the entire universe orbited the earth at one point. All of those scientific theories have been discarded because they were proven false.

    Divine creation theory hasnt changed in over 3000 years, science changes every few years to support newly discovered data.
    Frankly, fair intelligent analysis shows that it takes more faith to believe in science than in divine creation because you are right...neither have been proven. So attacking someone because you believe something different than they do is well....too Trump like for me!

    The big bang theory is exactly that....a theory, not fact. Divine creation is a theory...not fact, a theory. Both require equal amounts of faith!

  • RajioRajio Centurion

    The Laws of science state Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed

    thats not exactly true. matter can be turned to energy. energy can be turned to matter. one theory is that there was a big contraction in which a universe collapsed on itself. the matter all turned to energy at a single point. this caused an explosion for all the energy to convert back to matter and expel outwards. the theory goes that once our universe stops expanding it will then gradually begin to contract back in on itself as things get pulled back together to a single point.

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    Science didn't didn't insist it was flat. People did. Science proved that it wasn't.

    IT IS religion that still insists that it is flat and not only that but encased in a dome.

    Also, science doesn't insist anything. It theorizes and then tried to prove it. It doenst insist anything.

    ALso, its not MY science. It's everyones science.

    https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/a-mathematical-proof-that-the-universe-could-have-formed-spontaneously-from-nothing-ed7ed0f304a3#.7sn87pq61

    Give that a read.

    I trust science because it uses theories AND tangible evidence while religion and faith don't. Religion is based of greed of man, faith is based on man's need to have purpose.

    Its fine if you want to believe whatever you want. I just don't find value in believing something for the sake of needing to have something to believe in.

    I feel its no different than those who make up stories and make themselves believe it so that they feel like they have some purpose in life.

    I'm not attacking anyone , but on the other hand I don't have to pretend to respect ideas that are spilling over with shit.

  • So what part wasnt true? I said the laws of science stated Matter and energy couldnt be created or destroyed just changed. Matter changing to energy and energy changing to matter....
    I am missing the point where I stated something that wasnt true???

    And Yes I am familiar with Hawking's theory and the entire cycle starts all over...I have read this as well but what this fails to address is what created all the Mater in the first place?
    That is what science has yet to.

    At least Katu attempts to speculate on what came before Matter and energy, but that too is just a lot of wide guesses no further fetched than the divine creation theory in my opinion.

    :)

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    Lol of course science hasn't done that yet. But I wont believe it was a spirit in the sky when there is absolutely no evidence of that.

    Science takes time. Religion wanted to pretend it had all answers with. It was god's will.

  • RajioRajio Centurion

    You guys are positioning it like science and faith are diametrically opposed things - i don't quite think so. to some people, searching for god or for higher meaning or whatever, means searching to understand the universe better. In fact a lot of historical science is people looking to appreciate 'gods creation' better. the only problem is when people use faith in something to hold scientific exploration of ideas. thats the problem a lot of science had for a while, with religious stuff and similarly thats the problem a lot of religious stuff is having now with science - sure there could be some 'god' (whatever that means) out there. we have no real proof one way or the other. maybe we'll find out some aliens caused the big bang, and decide to call that 'god'? who knows. does it matter? Its like Russel's teapot. i dont know that somethign doesn't exist. i cant prove it doesnt. i have no evidence it doesnt. someone comes along and says it does. maybe they're right. its good for me to question that and hope to test that. but its dumb for me to say equivocally that the're wrong too.

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    But if someone says something exists, but there is no proof and no way to test it, then you have no reason to believe the claim.

    If you stick to that , then everything is a possibility but lots of it is unlikely due to no evidence. Look at the morons "chasing bigfoot"

    There are people that believe they exist.... why do they belive it? because they want to. No other reason. WE have never found a skeleton of one. Never found hair from one, never found a poop of one. There is no evidence and no reason to think there are any. People still want to believe that they exist though. I guess they have "faith " that even with no evidence they somehow exist regardless.

    I really like the movie Prometheus because it showed humans creators as being similar to us. And people found evidence of their creators and had the tech to go looking for them. Religious people HATE the movie because of it depicting humans being created not by a spirit but by aliens.

    As for sequels, if they are smart and keep going with the theme of us looking for answers to out creation (even made up sci fy answers) then it can be great. But if they turn it into a mindless action romp, then ill be pissed.

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