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When is theft not theft?

EchoGolfSierraEchoGolfSierra Centurion
edited February 28 in General

Question time Me-hos.... What are the societal implications for a world partially inhabited by people that have little respect for property rights?
be it software, .games, digital media ( ie books music and movies) I dont think anyone would deny that piracy is in fact theft. So is it the lack of consequences, or the perception that it is only big business that loses out that emboldens millions of people to steal from others?
Is this an evolutionary step away from a business model based on scarcity, or the further decay of a moralless society?

Let's Discuss!

Comments

  • I don't know about others, but speaking of myself when I was torrenting stuff, it was mostly due to lack of access. I used to torrent a lot of movies/tv shows/comics. At the end of the day this was mostly due to my location of where my parents lived, butt fuck nowhere. I've noticed now that I haven't actually pirated anything in some time. Now that I live a city, I have access to theaters, store and comic book stores.

    I think the easier you make it to access content the easier it is to curb piracy.

  • EchoGolfSierraEchoGolfSierra Centurion
    edited February 28

    so since I assume amazon delivered where you were....I assume you mean instant ( or quick) access? or iTunes for music...netflix for movies....etc etc Public library for books?

    Perhaps convenience is an issue then?

  • Instant or Quick access. Things like Netflix, living in a place where there are movie theaters. I actually used to order my games from Amazon, since there was no where close to where I grew up to buy games.

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    Some people download to try before you buy. I downloaded Street Fighter 5 to try out and ended up buying it afterwards.

    Sometimes things are hard to get... I know you use ROMS. That's the same as stealing. You didn't buy the actual game, you downloaded an image of that game and are playing it for free.

  • SintacsSintacs Centurion

    @Law212 said:
    I know you use ROMS. That's the same as stealing. You didn't buy the actual game, you downloaded an image of that game and are playing it for free.

    This. Unless you ripped the rom from the hardware yourself, it's piracy. Though you could argue that if you own a copy of whatever you have a ROM for it's alright.

    Though to be fair, I don't really have too huge an issue with piracy. Yeah, it sucks for folks that work hard to make something only to have it accessed without making profit for it, but if you make a product that's worth having, there will always be people buying it. I've actually pirated quite a bit of stuff that I either eventually purchased, or purchased immediately after trying. Sometimes I don't have the cash right away, sometimes it can be very hard to actually purchase something, sometimes I want to try something out before buying, but in the end, piracy has led to me buying quite a few things that I would have never purchased otherwise. I honestly can't think of much that I pirated that I haven't eventually purchased, though the DLC for Fallout 3 is on that list. It was barely worth the bandwidth it took to download it.

    @ReclaimerM3GTR said:
    Instant or Quick access. Things like Netflix, living in a place where there are movie theaters. I actually used to order my games from Amazon, since there was no where close to where I grew up to buy games.

    I agree with this. A lot of things I pirated in the past were mostly due to not being able to access them, or to access them quickly.

  • I used to...but I can afford to buy/not buy what I want...For movies...if it is something I want to see but not own...then I rent on itunes. I did have a friend give me a hard drive with all kinds of movies on it last summer...but I try to support people when I can.

  • For me, I pirated when I was in my mid-teens simply due to lack of funds and the offers being there. This was before internet torrents, and you'd actually get copies of game's made by friends. On floppy discs.

    I stopped pirating games/replaced the pirated games I had when I got into my late teens because I wanted to properly support the developers and I also realized that if I'm stealing something, I have no right to give feedback on that product. As a legit customer I have a right to complain or praise a product for it strengths and failings because I own a legit, legal license to use the software.

    Piracy also became a way (excuse?) from publishers to continually force more oppressive DRM on the legit consumers, which I wasn't keen on and opposed by buying legit.

    The software I pirated the longest was MS Office, but now I use LibreOffice so I no longer have any pirated software at all.

    I pirated movies when I was younger on VHS sometimes, but that stopped with DVD. I'm not talking about recording something off of the TV, but rather having a friend copy a movie they had. If I want to watch something now, I usually rent it digitally.

    For music I barely ever pirated at all; only the odd cassette in the 90's and a very few game soundtracks in the mid-2000's.

    In fact, I think two copied game soundtracks are the only pirated items I have left at all.

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    I pirate music and movies. Not so much music anymore because nothing good comes out anymore....

    Movies though, tons. Mainly because its nice to get screeners early and I don't haveto pay to see them all in theatres, but if they are good I can buy them on blu ray. '

  • DoosDoos Centurion

    Yeah, I pirate all viewing media.

    Games I pay for, Music I pay for either by access through streaming apps, sites or will buy direct from the band if they offer it.

    I bought Ash vs Evil Dead on bluray. It's my first blu ray purchase ever aside from gifts for the wife. Because I love what the show is and I have no way of buying access to it without some ridiculous cable package etc. I pirated all the shows though prior to buying it.

    I pay for Netflix.

    If shows that I watch want to join Netflix, I will be paying for them. If they allowed themselves to be sold for like, $20 per season, streamed online in an accessible way, I'd totally pay for 'em. But they don't. They want to stick to their old, stupid outdated business model? I'll stick to my old stupid stealing of their product and I won't think for a second about how that affects the people who work on the show. Not for a second.

  • EchoGolfSierraEchoGolfSierra Centurion
    edited February 28

    @Law212 said:
    Some people download to try before you buy. I downloaded Street Fighter 5 to try out and ended up buying it afterwards.

    Sometimes things are hard to get... I know you use ROMS. That's the same as stealing. You didn't buy the actual game, you downloaded an image of that game and are playing it for free.

    Please dont get defensive this isnt an attack on anyone.

    When 286-386 were leet gaming rigs I had 100's of pirated games. I use to load up the Hard drive of any system I sold with anything they wanted. I was young dumb and full of cum and I didnt understand the concept of property ownership.

    With reference to Rom's or digital books it is my understanding Canadian law allows me to have a digital version of any hardcopy I own. I am sure some companies dispute that but....it is what it is.

    Someone said they dont buy music because everything released is crap.....could that be because no band can sell a cd in todays market?

  • Law212Law212 Centurion

    Yeah you can have a digital copy of anything you actually own. Lots of my dvd and blu ray library I have digital copies of because its more convenient to load it up on the pc than to search for it on dvd.

    Same with music.

    As for ROMS though I don't own any old games anymore (well a few) so I'm really not supposed to have those, but Canadian Law say I can download digital content but not share it. I think that is still the law.

    Though some companies will try to get ISPs to tell them who you are so they can sue you, but ISPs don't have to give that info out and they never do.

    Legally Canadians can download what they want but sharing is a no no, so if you download then then have it so your torrent program shares it, then you can get in trouble.

    Morally though I try to pay for things, though I do like that I can try things out for free first.

  • EchoGolfSierraEchoGolfSierra Centurion
    edited February 28

    to get back onto the issue ( not that I have a problem with the piracy discussion...)

    Are we moving away from the concept of property ownership and the need for monetary compensation in society, either on purpose or accidently?

    Example....no one I know pays for cable anymore, they either go without or they steal it with android box technology. When the day comes that no one pays for cable and it has no direct monetary value will Rogers include it for free as part of your highspeed internet? ( they did this with Shomi when they couldnt sell it)

    When this day comes...when less and less items require money to use their services, have we evolved to a higher society or de-evolved to a less community of thieves?

    Star Trek is often tossed out as a society where money no longer exists. An entire Galaxy seemingly where you create or barter for anything you need.....yes it is fiction but if achieved is that an improvement or rolling back 3000 years to a time before wealth was invented?

    These concepts as well as the current business models, all exist in the field of economics....and have probably existed at some point in time.

  • JuxtaposeJuxtapose Centurion

    shomi was canceled, as you may recall. As someone who works in television production, I can tell you the entire landscape of the industry has and is changing because the distribution method is changing.

    Digital distribution is the big thing and traditional cable and broadcasters are for baby bombers and older with some Gen X thrown in for good measure. Millennials and younger are not subscribing to cable or satellite for TV, and production co's and broadcasters have been slow to adapt to this.

    That's hurt my company actually, as the broadcasters are our clients and they're not commissioning things like they used to because they're hurting financially. Canadian broadcasters especially are only ordering very select, sure-things in advance now, and not far in advance at all.

    We might see cable become free down the road, but I predict more that cable will ultimately transition and/or certain distributors will tank.

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